[Intelforum] Kam Air 737 Crash

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From: "Bob Martyn" <rbmart at hotmail.com>
To: intelforum at lists101.his.com
Subject: RE: Kam Air 737 Crash
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 11:43:46 -0500

As a former Air Force ParaRescueman, please let me contribute the 
following opinions and observations. There are numerous factors 
relevant to determining any plane crash without citing conspiracy 
theories.

First the crash. Kabul Flight Information Region is not a friendly 
skies sort of place to begin with. Kabul is still undergoing what is 
officially designated a "NAVAIDS rehabilitation project," which is to 
say, it still has no radar and operates under Special Visual Flight 
Rules (not good in a snowstorm). Its VOR navigation beacon was moved, 
several months ago, approximately 8 km, onto the airfield. I have no 
idea how current the charts were onboard the Kam Air flight, or the 
competency of the Russian/Afghan aircrew. While this last portion is 
just as speculative as the initial conjecture, although less 
sinister, some approaches into Kabul call for tight turns even on 
sunny days. If one is accidentally offset by 8km, in a snowstorm, in 
mountainous country.....

The Kabul approaches are very much through mountainous terrain. 
Geographically, Kabul sits 6,000 feet above sea level, in a bowl 
leading up to the 20,000 foot Hindu Kush; the Kam Air flight 
apparently impacted at 11,000 ft. I say impacted, as opposed to 
scattering debris following a mid-air explosion.

The author cites scorch marks as an indication that the airliner was 
shot down by an F-16 (I have no idea where the F-16 came into the 
story). Aircraft seldom crash without leaving scorch marks; aviation 
fuel is quite flammable, and even if widely scattered, some burning 
is virtually inevitable.

Parts being scattered over 50 kilometres buttress his theory that the 
aircraft was destroyed in flight. The cruising speed of a B737 is 440 
knots (500 mph or 815 kph). Coming to a sudden stop at this speed 
scatters debris a considerable distance. When considered in 
conjunction with the real estate - - a cliff face - - the parts will 
be further greatly dispersed as gravity brings falling wreckage down 
into various valleys spreading out from the impact site, adding to 
the cumulative distance.

The author claims there were no voices on the Flight Data Recorder. I 
cannot comment on the veracity of his assertion, however, FDRs do not 
always contain all the information flight safety investigators may 
want. Certain portions, eg - voice data, may be missing, whereas 
flight parameters (speed, flaps, heading, etc) may still be intact.

The casualties. Showing partially disrobed corpses does not prove 
that anyone had disturbed the bodies. Crash site victims, and their 
clothes, are almost always shredded, stripped away, or dramatically 
repositioned. Adding to the corpses' ignominy is the presence of 
animal traces (see slide 30 - 81/R/S3). The tracks look reasonably 
large. I do not know the Hindu Kush wildlife, but I know that in 
North America, if a hungry bear beat us to the crash site, we would 
have to go looking for the aircrew. Curiosity or hunger would often 
tempt an animal to forage through a crash site.

So, while I am certainly no competent to judge many of the initial 
assertions ("just because you are paranoid doesn't mean someone ISN'T 
out to get you"), I hope I've contributed something to the discussion.

Bob Martyn

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 08:37:05 -0600
From: IntelForum Mailing List <intelforum at lists101.his.com>
Subject: [Intelforum] Kam Air Boeing 737 Crash
To: <intelforum at lists101.his.com>
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Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:02:11 +0100
From: Frank Sullivan <sullivan at math.unipd.it>
To: <intelforum at lists101.his.com>
Subject: Kam Air Boeing 737 Crash

I would be interested in hearing the opinion of competent
professionals with regard to
the photos (Power Point Presentation) and questions raised by Richard Chichakli
at  http://www.chichakli.com/quiz.htm
and also the photos at http://www.chichakli.com/crashed_737.htm

The whole site is very interesting, but I'm especially interested in hearing
what someone familiar with analysis of aerial photos has to say regarding
the statement that the wreckage was strewn over a 50 kilometer range.

                                          Frank Sullivan