[Intelforum] Kam Air 737 Crash
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Tue Nov 15 08:39:52 EST 2005
From: "Bob Martyn" <rbmart at hotmail.com>
To: intelforum at lists101.his.com
Subject: RE: Kam Air 737 Crash
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 11:43:46 -0500
As a former Air Force ParaRescueman, please let me contribute the
following opinions and observations. There are numerous factors
relevant to determining any plane crash without citing conspiracy
First the crash. Kabul Flight Information Region is not a friendly
skies sort of place to begin with. Kabul is still undergoing what is
officially designated a "NAVAIDS rehabilitation project," which is to
say, it still has no radar and operates under Special Visual Flight
Rules (not good in a snowstorm). Its VOR navigation beacon was moved,
several months ago, approximately 8 km, onto the airfield. I have no
idea how current the charts were onboard the Kam Air flight, or the
competency of the Russian/Afghan aircrew. While this last portion is
just as speculative as the initial conjecture, although less
sinister, some approaches into Kabul call for tight turns even on
sunny days. If one is accidentally offset by 8km, in a snowstorm, in
The Kabul approaches are very much through mountainous terrain.
Geographically, Kabul sits 6,000 feet above sea level, in a bowl
leading up to the 20,000 foot Hindu Kush; the Kam Air flight
apparently impacted at 11,000 ft. I say impacted, as opposed to
scattering debris following a mid-air explosion.
The author cites scorch marks as an indication that the airliner was
shot down by an F-16 (I have no idea where the F-16 came into the
story). Aircraft seldom crash without leaving scorch marks; aviation
fuel is quite flammable, and even if widely scattered, some burning
is virtually inevitable.
Parts being scattered over 50 kilometres buttress his theory that the
aircraft was destroyed in flight. The cruising speed of a B737 is 440
knots (500 mph or 815 kph). Coming to a sudden stop at this speed
scatters debris a considerable distance. When considered in
conjunction with the real estate - - a cliff face - - the parts will
be further greatly dispersed as gravity brings falling wreckage down
into various valleys spreading out from the impact site, adding to
the cumulative distance.
The author claims there were no voices on the Flight Data Recorder. I
cannot comment on the veracity of his assertion, however, FDRs do not
always contain all the information flight safety investigators may
want. Certain portions, eg - voice data, may be missing, whereas
flight parameters (speed, flaps, heading, etc) may still be intact.
The casualties. Showing partially disrobed corpses does not prove
that anyone had disturbed the bodies. Crash site victims, and their
clothes, are almost always shredded, stripped away, or dramatically
repositioned. Adding to the corpses' ignominy is the presence of
animal traces (see slide 30 - 81/R/S3). The tracks look reasonably
large. I do not know the Hindu Kush wildlife, but I know that in
North America, if a hungry bear beat us to the crash site, we would
have to go looking for the aircrew. Curiosity or hunger would often
tempt an animal to forage through a crash site.
So, while I am certainly no competent to judge many of the initial
assertions ("just because you are paranoid doesn't mean someone ISN'T
out to get you"), I hope I've contributed something to the discussion.
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 08:37:05 -0600
From: IntelForum Mailing List <intelforum at lists101.his.com>
Subject: [Intelforum] Kam Air Boeing 737 Crash
To: <intelforum at lists101.his.com>
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Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:02:11 +0100
From: Frank Sullivan <sullivan at math.unipd.it>
To: <intelforum at lists101.his.com>
Subject: Kam Air Boeing 737 Crash
I would be interested in hearing the opinion of competent
professionals with regard to
the photos (Power Point Presentation) and questions raised by Richard Chichakli
and also the photos at http://www.chichakli.com/crashed_737.htm
The whole site is very interesting, but I'm especially interested in hearing
what someone familiar with analysis of aerial photos has to say regarding
the statement that the wreckage was strewn over a 50 kilometer range.
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